Moscow Nights - a Debate on Same Sex Marriage between Andrew Sullivan and Douglas Wilson - Mail Online. Here’s a brief and impressionistic account of the debate I chaired last week (2. February) - on same- sex marriage in Moscow, Idaho.
I believe a recording will be posted on the web fairly soon, so anyone wanting to know exactly what was said had best wait for that. My general view remains that this topic is a diversion from the main issue – the survival or otherwise of heterosexual marriage. I rather think that this debate tended to support that point, especially the implications of a central part of Andrew Sullivan’s case (see what you think). Buy COLLISION: Christopher Hitchens vs. Douglas Wilson on Amazon.com FREE SHIPPING on qualified orders Amazon Try. One of the best documentary/debate DVDs. Hitchens and Wilson are perfect opponents for one another. The documentary COLLISION pits. Collision: Christopher Hitchens vs. Douglas Wilson (Video. Christopher Hitchens Chuck Colson church church apologetics. Christopher Hitchens and Douglas Wilson Debate MP3 Audio. Full debate PDF transcript here. Christopher Hitchens vs. Douglas Wilson debate. Christopher Hitchens vs. Douglas Wilson debate. Christopher Hitchens vs. Lorenzo Albacete debate. Christopher Hitchens and Douglas Wilson debate. Christopher Hitchens and Douglas Wilson debate. And my main purpose here is to raise a number of questions which interested me both while preparing for the debate and while chairing it. The really important thing was that this was an encounter between two people who might be thought to be so far apart that a civilised exchange between them would be very difficult. Doug Wilson, a politically, morally and socially conservative Calvinist pastor was ranged against Andrew Sullivan, a British- born, New York- based campaigner for homosexual rights. Mr Sullivan remains a communicant Roman Catholic ( I specifically checked this point with him) despite his Church’s position on the issue of homosexuality. Mr Wilson is the head of a large family and the leader, if the word can be used, of a pretty close- knit community of serious Bible Christians, he lives and works in the city of Moscow, Idaho, a university town set in the small, intimate hill- country (there are some modest mountains too) called . They knew what I was driving at. Among Moscow’s weapons- grade Calvinists, I’m tolerated as The Soppy English Episcopalian, presumably in the hope that I’ll eventually see the light and head for Geneva, or for St Andrew’s (the late John Knox is a living force in these parts). It makes an agreeable change from being regarded as a religious fanatic. Mr Sullivan is one half of a same- sex marriage and speaks proudly of his husband. I suspect that, like most British residents in the USA, he finds the uncompromising, determined Protestantism of Mr Wilson and his followers a pretty tall order. There hasn’t been much of this sort of thing in England since the Civil War, and very little since 1. I hadn’t previously met Mr Sullivan, but I had read his excellent and thoughtful book . He doesn’t ever engage in the silly bigotry against religious conservatives, to which so many sexual revolutionaries resort. His response to the bigotry of others is (rightly) to point out that it demeans them, not him. His personal accounts of his experiences as a young man who realised he was homosexual and decided to live his life as honestly as possible are very moving. Before the debate, we talked over dinner at Mr Wilson’s hilltop house (with its view of snow- dusted, pine clad mountains fading into dusk) and I rather liked him. I was (as I had told the organisers) pretty neutral in the debate (the motion was . As I’ve explained here, I think the issue is a trap for conservatives, who for daring to express any opposition to the idea at all will immediately be dismissed as teeth- grinding . I just don’t think he is typical of his cause. He has made a considerable reputation as the archetypal ? I think everyone at the debate thought Mr Sullivan spoke with great eloquence, but many also felt he pulled the emotional levers too hard and too much. I doubt if he ever had any chance of winning the final vote, but I think he might have done better if he had been a little less personally passionate. Mind you, the liberal attendance at this meeting was smaller than I had expected. Perhaps the besieged left- wingers of Moscow, Idaho, surrounded on all sides by conservatives, felt Mr Sullivan was too moderate for them. How many supporters of same- sex marriage would say, as Mr Sullivan sincerely does, that they believe in marriage till death do them part, and entirely rule out adulterous relationships by the spouses in a same- sex marriage? I ask because I don’t know, but also (obviously) because I suspect the answer might be ? I did probe him on this, but didn’t feel I had a clear answer. Would modern metropolitan sexual liberals of *any* orientation want marriage as it was in, say, 1. Then there was the matter of being *excluded* from marriage, which Mr Sullivan powerfully complains about. I don’t think this is a true description of the previous position. In the Anglican Prayer Book, there is a . Some of them are quite surprising, and the reader is rather amazed that anyone could contemplate such a match. It is not that homosexuals were *excluded*. It is that they were *not included*. Some may think this is pedantic or annoyingly subtle. Actually it is very important. If there is a specific bar to entry, then it is reasonable to ask why it is there and, if the reason given is unsatisfactory, to press for its removal. But if the institution exists, and its guardians have not even conceived that it might be open to a certain group, then what we have is an argument for a change in the nature of the institution. My own view, which I have recently come to after changing my mind, is that the demand for same- sex marriage is not itself an attack on the nature of marriage, but a *consequence* of a general change in the institution, which was actually achieved by pressure from a post- Christian heterosexual society and (as Mr Sullivan rightly says ) by the contraceptive pill. It has adopted principles for the protection of children and dependent spouses which could be made equally applicable to the unmarried’. She prophesied correctly that the . Again, I tried to press him on this issue of non- inclyusion rather than exclusion, but never really got to the point. I think the claim of direct exclusion, as opposed to indirect non- inclusion, is a very powerful part of his armoury. I also think it’s mistaken. There really is no reason why homosexual couples could not be given, in reforms of individual laws, most of the rights and freedoms on inheritance, next- of- kin privileges which marriage brings. I stick to the view that the desire for same- sex marriage is ultimately a cultural and moral revolutionary act, applauded by its many heterosexual supporters because it emphasises that we are no longer a Christian society. Quite where that leaves serious Christian believers, who are also homosexuals, such as Mr Sullivan, I am not sure. My suspicion is that, like many who seek to be honest and fair, he will face more enmity from what is supposedly his own side than he will from his direct opponents.
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Why Is The ADL Promoting Alex Jones? Alex Jones Articles. WHY IS THE ADLPROMOTING ALEX JONES? By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2. Articles May Be Reproduced Only With Authorship of Br Nathanael Kapner& Link To Real Jew News(SM)Support Brother Nathanael! HEREOr Send Your Contribution To: Brother Nathanael Kapner; PO Box 5. Priest River ID 8.
Jews, Generals, & The US War Machine. Military/Zionist Articles, Jewish Bankers Articles, America In Decline Articles. JEWS, GENERALS, & THE US WAR MACHINE.E- mail: bronathanael@yahoo. For The Best. Alternative News. CLICK: Rense. com. Here. From AIPAC and the ADL to the bogus Southern Poverty Law Center to B’nai B’rith, Zionism is the most ruthless geopolitical (thermonuclear Israel), financial and political force in the United States. As David Icke succinctly puts it, “Zionism is the Elephant in the Controllers’ Board Room” that only Zionist deniers, de facto agents and Zionist apologists pretend isn’t there and won’t mention. These pieces are usually vicious in tone and replete with baseless slanders and smears of the targeted individual/s. That question is vital. Kramer’s research showed that Holly Bronfman’s attorney just happens to be Jones’ personal attorney. From that discovery it is not hard to project why Mr. Jones avoids even the mention of . Updated: Alien Saves Mans Life In China Car Accident, Sept 2012 Security Cam Video. Why Is The ADL Promoting Alex Jones? WHY IS THE ADL PROMOTING ALEX JONES? By Brother Nathanael Kapner, Copyright 2009-2014. Xbox gamerpics preview from Team DZN. Team DZN Used by: 2 Free: Yes! Tags: girl, boobs, hot, team dzn, Epic Fairy Tales Picture Pack, babes, red riding hood, chic. Read Microsoft Word - Songbooks. Chords Online Katalog 2009 - Songbooks - Tasten. Iglesias, Enrique Inxs. Read Entire Kramer Story. Here, Here & Here. In one of his most infamous Zionist coverup statements, Jones stated: “Hollywood Is Owned By The Arabs’ - The Arabs Own Everything!” That stunning statement simply shattered the credibility meter. It’s simply a matter of connecting the dots. Many have noticed - and even die- hard fans have been perplexed for years - over Jones refusing to discuss the . He simply will not criticize or even mention . Therefore, when the ADL . In a deft attempt to underscore the ADL piece as a personal attack on Jones - as if he were a true enemy of Zionism - the Jones site’s responsive editorial blasted back at the ADL piece as if it had damaged him severely. However, once again, the term Zionism never appeared. Connect the dots again. Jones is, in reality, anything but a patriot martyr out to expose the Zionist Jewish agenda and its malignant hold on our Republic. The ADL article actually reads more like a promo for Jones than a personal attack as evidenced by even just two excerpts: “Jones runs a syndicated radio show, The Alex Jones Show, which is broadcast on AM and FM stations. Jones also operates two popular Web sites, Infowars and Prison Planet, and appears on a cable access television show.”(Remember, this is supposed to be a savage hit piece on Jones. In March 2. 00. 9, Jones appeared on the FOX News program Freedom Watch which allowed him to simulcast the show over his radio program.”(Reads like a publicity release. Who, exactly, is the KLBJ team’s owner? The Founder and CEO of Emmis Communications just happens to be a well- connected Jewish American broadcast mini- mogul named Jeffrey H. Smulyan — the kind of Jewish American who would doubtless have strong allegiance to Zionist Jewish organizations like the ADL — and whom the ADL likes to support in return. With a Doctorate Law degree from the University of Southern California School of Law and a subsequent “Tree of Life Award” from the Jewish National Fund, Smulyan has just the right credentials to rub shoulders with one of the JNF’s financial recipients, the ADL. In 1. 99. 4, Smulyan was tabbed by The White House to head the U. S. Delegation to the Plenipotentiary Conference of the International Telecommunications Union. The Sirius XM Radio Network is owned by the American Jew, Mel Karmazin, CEO; and managed by the Jews, Scott Greenstein, President; David Frear, Chief Financial Officer; and Eddy Hartenstein, Chairman of the Board. Before his July 2. Sirius, Jones was railing against Sirius XM radio for featuring . Why did Jones suddenly change his mind? Could it be money, lots of Zionist money? In the article, Shamah exposes Jones as a “rebbe” whose fans fear his Jewish ties will make him “look bad: ” Wrote Shamah: “Jones believes that the world is run by the Rockefellers, the Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderberg Group. But I never heard him utter the word . According to Jones’ Wikipedia biography page: ? Jeff Smulyan, winner of the Jewish National Fund’s Tree of Life Award. Interestingly, I have never seen Smulyan’s name on the lists of Jews who run the media on the Anti- Semitic sites. Could it be they don’t want to make their ? After all, his salary is being paid by . Nothing could be much farther from reality. No sooner did the ADL publish what amounts to this thinly- veiled PR piece for him, than Jones’ largely Zionist staff cranked out its painfully contrived story about how poor Jones was being savaged by the ADL. So, again, if you haven’t connected the right dots, it is patently obvious that the ADL moved to give Jones and his agenda of not mentioning the . The Jones site editorial reply to the ADL . Read both and decide for yourself. Jones runs, according to many, a de facto ZIONIST OPERATION, and he ONLY mentions Zionism in passing when he absolutely must. His historic effort to cover for his Zionist Jewish Hollywood friends by saying, on a “You. Tube clip, “The Arabs own Hollywood and everyone knows it” is truly a classic faux pas. He might as well have tried to deny the existence of the sun. Jones, his program, his sites (at least five of them), and through his documentaries are essentially the core of a mass desensitizing operation. And that, of course, is the very idea. Zionism would seem to have a truly great, loyal and steadfast friend in Mr. Jones. JONES IS BASICALLY,(as one of the most visible public figures in the alternative media), not much more than a showman or razzle- dazzle carny type. He could have earned millions as a ? That DVD was, of course, the perfect entre into the larger world of alternative media for him as the ultimate . View Cooper You. Tube Video. Here. Jones has a specific agenda that unquestionably covers for Zionism. Sure, he wears the cloak of the Patriot. Street Evangelist! Support Brother Nathanael! HEREOr Send Your Contribution To: Brother Nathanael Kapner; PO Box 5. Priest River ID 8. E- mail: bronathanael@yahoo. Brother Nathanael @ December 1, 2. Kannada Prabha Epaper Kannada Prabha Publisher : Express Publication (Madurai) Ltd Kannada Prabha Language : Kannada Kannada Prabha Newspaper URL : http. 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